This is not really a discussion or a debate, but more like a rant and venting of my own frustrations. I am wondering if I am the only one with this opinion or if this is something that is also experienced by my fellow colleagues.
For a long time, I only worked TFP. When photography was my profession, my job, my bread and butter, I used to exchange my services as a photographer with the services of a model. My camera gear needed to be paid for as I had a hefty loan outstanding to pay for the equipment and as photography was my only source of income, TFP became a means to work on non-commercial projects. During these sessions, we collaborated on artistic projects with the goal of obtaining images that would suit us both. To date, my best images were obtained through TFP sessions, even with extremely professional models.
Ever since I moved to Prague and put my old paid off equipment back to use to shoot entirely as an amateur, I have met a lot of magnificent girls who use their modeling skills to earn some extra cash. Over my years in the Czech Capital, I have started to pay a set fee for up to 2 hours of fine art nude work. Many of these models have become friends and not all the sessions result in a paid exchange but still, I do not believe that the 2000czk that I offered for a session was a bad rate. The payment became a business transaction that facilitated the use of the obtained images in exhibitions and international publications.
In my search for new faces, purely for the joy of working with light, a nice setting and a beautiful figure, I have come to one rather disturbing conclusion. An amateur photo model charges more than an experienced prostitute. Photo models are not prostitutes but a recent discussion with a pretty young lady who works in the escort industry, resulted in some pretty amazing images. With respect to the young lady, I will not be sharing any of the results on social media. Just to clarify, I was not aware of her profession but the website we used to hook up was more intended for sexual encounters rather than the arrangement of photo sessions. (Tinder)
The starting rate for an escort is around 40E/1000czk per hour. The lady offered any service that I requested and when I asked her to just let me photograph her, rather than use her body for gratifying my sexual fantasy, she was hesitant. We met for a drink and we ended up shooting body details where the photographed parts were difficult to recognize or anatomically place. The photo session was only agreed as she would not be recognized but the resulting images were personal and intimate. (www.adultprague.com)
The conversation that followed was an interesting one. She had friends and colleagues who would also be interested in working on fine art projects and be happy to work with me for a fraction of the agreed rate as long as no reference would be made to their actual profession.
In my inbox on FP I received various responses from models that I had contacted before. The rates that they quoted ranged from 1400czk per hour, with a minimum of 2 hours, to 500usd for a session without open legs. I have no intention to publish a picture book intended for gynecology students and anyone who is familiar with my work will know that I respect my models and never shoot anything that would compromise or degrade them in any way.
The current rates to work with an average model exceed the rates for an average prostitute. We are all shouting that fine art and nudity is not porn. Modeling is not prostitution and respect is essential. I love my models and I have enjoyed working with each and every one of them, but the rates that are currently being asked for by people without any of the grace, elegance or artistic ambitions that I was used to, will make me think twice about working with a paid photo model.
What is your opinion on the current range of "professional" models and the rates that they charge? My time of working with these new "professionals" has come to an end as they do not offer anything inspirational, new or worth their fee. Perhaps I stand alone with this verdict but I had to vent it regardless. Thank you for bearing with me and for having read my thoughts.
It's simple, TFP collab creates a huge room for various misunderstandings, unfulfilled expectations and the resulting conflicts. There've been endless discussions here on this topic. Compared to all that, collab for money is a pure matter. Who pays determines the task. No unnecessary discussions, no unfulfilled expectations on both sides, a simple connection of interests, she wants money, I want to shoot what's in my head (not what fits in her portfolio), and then, we talk about an absolutely negligible cost compared to the total cost invested in photography, so what's the point ;)
I see very clearly benefits in what you call pseudo commercial nonsense :)) and among other arguments, maybe if you stop looking for values that no longer exist and find values in the existing ones, you'll stop being convinced that the whole world has gone mad and you're the only one sane :D
maybe you can start with the explanation how exactly is beneficial to change mind and adapt to this pseudo commercial nonsense instead of stay yourself
"Your conclusion only confirms my experience with this place in general, there are only ultra-conservative photographers left who don't change their minds, no matter what arguments were made, no matter how much the world around them has changed (or, if you prefer, gone mad)."
well, exactly opposite. problematic ones are people that change their minds very easily :-) strictly-for-free photographers are more on the radical side, not on the conservative.
Once again, after a long time, an intense debate, but it ends exactly where it begins !!
Your conclusion only confirms my experience with this place in general, there are only ultra-conservative photographers left who don't change their minds, no matter what arguments were made, no matter how much the world around them has changed (or, if you prefer, gone mad).
A really curious fossil place. Contemporary thinking photographers has disappeared from here for years.
I am an experienced amateur and yes, I do use the camera as a tool to create art, but also as an excuse. I can admire a beautiful woman through the lens and capture magnificent images. If I would stare at a similar woman without a camera or an objective to create art, I would be considered a pervert or a dirty old man. Thankfully my models know me but if they would not, I can see how the camera is a great excuse for anyone.
I must also say that I do not know many amateur photographers who charge professional rates for their services. The same can not be said for todays models. Do I understand them? Sure, for the same reason that a photographer should be paid. Who needs the service, and who is prepared to work with an artist with an objective to create?
TFP is starting to be a thing of the past. I accept that. If there are any TFP models interested in collaborating with me, please feel free to send me a message. All the paid offers will be gracefully declined.
This is not really a discussion or a debate, but more like a rant and venting of my own frustrations. I am wondering if I am the only one with this opinion or if this is something that is also experienced by my fellow colleagues.
For a long time, I only worked TFP. When photography was my profession, my job, my bread and butter, I used to exchange my services as a photographer with the services of a model. My camera gear needed to be paid for as I had a hefty loan outstanding to pay for the equipment and as photography was my only source of income, TFP became a means to work on non-commercial projects. During these sessions, we collaborated on artistic projects with the goal of obtaining images that would suit us both. To date, my best images were obtained through TFP sessions, even with extremely professional models.
Ever since I moved to Prague and put my old paid off equipment back to use to shoot entirely as an amateur, I have met a lot of magnificent girls who use their modeling skills to earn some extra cash. Over my years in the Czech Capital, I have started to pay a set fee for up to 2 hours of fine art nude work. Many of these models have become friends and not all the sessions result in a paid exchange but still, I do not believe that the 2000czk that I offered for a session was a bad rate. The payment became a business transaction that facilitated the use of the obtained images in exhibitions and international publications.
In my search for new faces, purely for the joy of working with light, a nice setting and a beautiful figure, I have come to one rather disturbing conclusion. An amateur photo model charges more than an experienced prostitute. Photo models are not prostitutes but a recent discussion with a pretty young lady who works in the escort industry, resulted in some pretty amazing images. With respect to the young lady, I will not be sharing any of the results on social media. Just to clarify, I was not aware of her profession but the website we used to hook up was more intended for sexual encounters rather than the arrangement of photo sessions. (Tinder)
The starting rate for an escort is around 40E/1000czk per hour. The lady offered any service that I requested and when I asked her to just let me photograph her, rather than use her body for gratifying my sexual fantasy, she was hesitant. We met for a drink and we ended up shooting body details where the photographed parts were difficult to recognize or anatomically place. The photo session was only agreed as she would not be recognized but the resulting images were personal and intimate. (www.adultprague.com)
The conversation that followed was an interesting one. She had friends and colleagues who would also be interested in working on fine art projects and be happy to work with me for a fraction of the agreed rate as long as no reference would be made to their actual profession.
In my inbox on FP I received various responses from models that I had contacted before. The rates that they quoted ranged from 1400czk per hour, with a minimum of 2 hours, to 500usd for a session without open legs. I have no intention to publish a picture book intended for gynecology students and anyone who is familiar with my work will know that I respect my models and never shoot anything that would compromise or degrade them in any way.
The current rates to work with an average model exceed the rates for an average prostitute. We are all shouting that fine art and nudity is not porn. Modeling is not prostitution and respect is essential. I love my models and I have enjoyed working with each and every one of them, but the rates that are currently being asked for by people without any of the grace, elegance or artistic ambitions that I was used to, will make me think twice about working with a paid photo model.
What is your opinion on the current range of "professional" models and the rates that they charge? My time of working with these new "professionals" has come to an end as they do not offer anything inspirational, new or worth their fee. Perhaps I stand alone with this verdict but I had to vent it regardless. Thank you for bearing with me and for having read my thoughts.