- Kees Terberg
- 10. 10. 2022 20:222022-10-10 20:22:17
- reagovat
Reakce na Go4Conceptual: I'm afraid a lot of these problems are sort of home-made :) I'm offer...
You are right, but as I am used to working TFP and have experienced that I had images printed which the (paid) model hated, I exhibited the works with a double feeling. If I share work which the model (even if she was paid) dislikes for whatever reason, I prefer to withdraw them. Paid or not, the work involves both the photographer and the featured model. Ever since my inital experience, I have yet to discover one model who is not happy with the results. The images I share are of a resolution which is good enough for FP, social media or e-mailing but not quite up to the standard of a good A4 sized print.
- Go4Conceptual
- 10. 10. 2022 19:222022-10-10 19:22:22
- reagovat
Reakce na Kees Terberg: Let’s just take a recent photo session with a new model from the begin...
I'm afraid a lot of these problems are sort of home-made :)I'm offering a fee but never my photographs, although I've also heard from some models, that other photographers pay for modeling and then add a few photographs to it. I don't do it, never !!
As written in the model release, all rights to the photographs belong 100% to me ;) the model receives a fee but not a single photograph !I so I don't need to lead any discussions about what she expected to get or what photographs she likes. I don't do that, a model is paid for modeling, not for her artistic judgement :D
To be honest, I don't know about most of the troubles you described here. Now and then a model looks different than in her profile pictures or doesn't show up to a shooting, that's it. But both not very often ;)
I just think that the rules of the game are not to be made with models together :D you should be more assertive in your own concerns and less receptive to a debate. For me, it's better not to skimp on fees, and not to compromise on my own ideas ;)
- Kees Terberg
- 10. 10. 2022 14:152022-10-10 14:15:31
- reagovat
Let’s just take a recent photo session with a new model from the beginning to the end.
Me: Hello, I like your profile and was wondering if you would be interested in working with me. Please fill me in on your terms and conditions for an outdoor fine art nude session.
Model: I am an international traveling model and my availability depends on the dates that you have in mind. My rates for nude are 60E per hour with a minimum of 2 hours. For 40E extra I will shoot open legs and erotic.
Me: Thank you, I am not interested in open legs or erotic. Please have a look at my profile for the style of work that I shoot. I would like to work with you for about an hour next weekend. I offer a fixed rate of 2000czk per session. Will you be willing to work with me for that rate?
Model: I don’t shoot outdoors and definitely not public nude. I will have the option to use a studio for 500czk per hour.
Me: OK, we can plan a 2 hour session in the studio but it is likely to take about one hour rather than 2. Fee including the studio for 2 hours, 3000czk.
Model: What outfits and make-up would you like me to wear?
Me: None, I shoot nudes, I don’t shoot glamour. If you want to use make-up, please keep it as natural and basic as possible. No nail varnish, no lipstick, no mascara, no wigs. No outfits, no lingerie, no accessories, no jewellery.
Model: OK
The date of the session arrives and the model sends me a message that she will be later as she had a rough night and slept through her alarm. She arrives about 40 minutes late. The studio is basic but reasonably equipped. It takes me about 20 minutes to set up the backdrop and the lights.
We shoot for about 15 minutes. Have a 10 minute break for the model to respond to her IG, FB and Whatsapp messages, toilet and cigarette break. We continue shooting a range of poses and try to play with lights and angles. This time we shoot for 20 minutes before we take a break again to change the backdrop and lighting. We shoot for 5 more minutes and then restore the studio to its default settings.
The model reads and signs the release form and I offer her the agreed payment. After telling her that I will send her a link with my selection of images from the session that I like and that she will have 7 days to inform me of any images that she does not like or wish me to use, our ways part.
Returning home, the images are downloaded and sorted. The usable images are copied to an online drive and a link is sent to the model.
Model: Please tag me if you use my images.
Model: Please do not share my nude images anywhere uncensored.
Model: When will you send me the edited images?
Model: I have now waited a whole week. When can I expect my images?
Model: Please send me the high resolution files as soon as possible. I like these files (range of numbers provided).
This is not really a discussion or a debate, but more like a rant and venting of my own frustrations. I am wondering if I am the only one with this opinion or if this is something that is also experienced by my fellow colleagues.
For a long time, I only worked TFP. When photography was my profession, my job, my bread and butter, I used to exchange my services as a photographer with the services of a model. My camera gear needed to be paid for as I had a hefty loan outstanding to pay for the equipment and as photography was my only source of income, TFP became a means to work on non-commercial projects. During these sessions, we collaborated on artistic projects with the goal of obtaining images that would suit us both. To date, my best images were obtained through TFP sessions, even with extremely professional models.
Ever since I moved to Prague and put my old paid off equipment back to use to shoot entirely as an amateur, I have met a lot of magnificent girls who use their modeling skills to earn some extra cash. Over my years in the Czech Capital, I have started to pay a set fee for up to 2 hours of fine art nude work. Many of these models have become friends and not all the sessions result in a paid exchange but still, I do not believe that the 2000czk that I offered for a session was a bad rate. The payment became a business transaction that facilitated the use of the obtained images in exhibitions and international publications.
In my search for new faces, purely for the joy of working with light, a nice setting and a beautiful figure, I have come to one rather disturbing conclusion. An amateur photo model charges more than an experienced prostitute. Photo models are not prostitutes but a recent discussion with a pretty young lady who works in the escort industry, resulted in some pretty amazing images. With respect to the young lady, I will not be sharing any of the results on social media. Just to clarify, I was not aware of her profession but the website we used to hook up was more intended for sexual encounters rather than the arrangement of photo sessions. (Tinder)
The starting rate for an escort is around 40E/1000czk per hour. The lady offered any service that I requested and when I asked her to just let me photograph her, rather than use her body for gratifying my sexual fantasy, she was hesitant. We met for a drink and we ended up shooting body details where the photographed parts were difficult to recognize or anatomically place. The photo session was only agreed as she would not be recognized but the resulting images were personal and intimate. (www.adultprague.com)
The conversation that followed was an interesting one. She had friends and colleagues who would also be interested in working on fine art projects and be happy to work with me for a fraction of the agreed rate as long as no reference would be made to their actual profession.
In my inbox on FP I received various responses from models that I had contacted before. The rates that they quoted ranged from 1400czk per hour, with a minimum of 2 hours, to 500usd for a session without open legs. I have no intention to publish a picture book intended for gynecology students and anyone who is familiar with my work will know that I respect my models and never shoot anything that would compromise or degrade them in any way.
The current rates to work with an average model exceed the rates for an average prostitute. We are all shouting that fine art and nudity is not porn. Modeling is not prostitution and respect is essential. I love my models and I have enjoyed working with each and every one of them, but the rates that are currently being asked for by people without any of the grace, elegance or artistic ambitions that I was used to, will make me think twice about working with a paid photo model.
What is your opinion on the current range of "professional" models and the rates that they charge? My time of working with these new "professionals" has come to an end as they do not offer anything inspirational, new or worth their fee. Perhaps I stand alone with this verdict but I had to vent it regardless. Thank you for bearing with me and for having read my thoughts.