Reakce na Lotte: AlterEgo, I will just accept that things are changing and others do no...
Lotte, that was a response to a post by 61Medved.The way I was responding to you before was mostly about that sentence about how the world is. I more or less agree with you on the rest of it - I was simply making the point I highlighted that "truth" is a wide highway, not a narrow path, if you catch my drift... I hope I didn't get lost in similes like you did in my Czech one :-) "Rejpání ze sportu" has nothing to do with rapping about sports. Rejpání (rýpání) is in the figurative sense of teasing, poking... And I sometimes do it to people just "as a sport" (as my hobby).
- Go4Conceptual
- 25. 08. 2022 18:212022-08-25 18:21:48
- reagovat
Reakce na Lotte: It seems like this discussion is taking a different route. A commercia...
"everyone with a camera is now a photographer and anyone with a physical body can be a model" - this sentence is simply not true !!
They can call themselves that, they can play at that, but being a photographer or a photo-model has its requirements on skills and it's simply not enough just to have a camera or to be good looking
Anyway, collab for money or for photos cannot determine the quality of a model (I'd rather expect that the model that's still interested in photographs won't have enough experience)
Most models have more photos after a short period of time than it makes sense to present, so unless the photographer is a celebrity or exceptionally talented, all today's photographs are of very limited value, there are simply too many of them
Modeling it's not just a funny hobby. Taking care of your body, dressing appropriately, traveling and having enough of free time to model as demanded requires having a solid income. So TFP isn't usually an option for most of the serious working models
I understand that most people are discussing their experiences with some gold-digging whores pretending to be photo-models rather than models, because there are a way more of them than there are reputable models at the moment :D
Reakce na 4lt3r 3g0: :-) Myslím, že to nikdy nebylo tak zlý. Někdy rejpu jen tak ze sportu...
AlterEgo, I will just accept that things are changing and others do not. I will say it again. Where there is a demand, someone will offer it for a fee. The higher the fees, the greater the demand. I guess that now it is time that there are more models in demand than photographers. Yes, let's rap about sport instead. I quite like rugby, but only to watch.
Reakce na 61Medvěd: Sakra, co je? Pokud si vzpomínám, tak jsme se nemohli kdysi na ničem s...
:-) Myslím, že to nikdy nebylo tak zlý. Někdy rejpu jen tak ze sportu ;-)
Reakce na 4lt3r 3g0: I guess I live in a different world. In mine, there's a lot of free th...
Sakra, co je? Pokud si vzpomínám, tak jsme se nemohli kdysi na ničem shodnout a dneska souhlasím a rád. Co se to s námi děje? :-)
Reakce na L. Hala: Modeling madness? Peeking in here out of old habits, I can't stop w...
It is very interesting what you wrote....
History of modern portrait and nude art is about since the renaissance period... many methods how to scetch draw, paint or fotograph it... and many kinds of imaginations from descriptive... to abstract pictures... you can dicede if you will create minimlistic or high sofisticated or composed picture... Last 200 years is here B&W photography Last about 80 years is here color photograhy... both with many kinds of filters...
Where you see new trends in portrait and or nude art photography in last 20 years? (excuse my poor English...)
Reakce na Lotte: It seems like this discussion is taking a different route. A commercia...
I guess I live in a different world. In mine, there's a lot of free things - both - the things I give and the things I get...It seems like this discussion is taking a different route. A commercial model or photograher does the job for a living and with commercial purposes. Commercial has the goal of making money. Everyone needs money so it is an easy option for anyone to sell their services in front of a camera as long as the party requesting the services is prepared to pay for that. Everyone with a camera is now a photographer and anyone with a physical body can be a model. Nothing in this world is free anymore so services are charged. Some charge more than others and in some cases it might be worth it. In others it is not.
Reakce na Go4Conceptual: Interesting theory, I feel sorry for all those commercial photographer...
Ooops. I think the ironizing is a bit unnecessary here. What Ivo wrote is logical and partly corresponds to reality - especially for those models who don't know much and yet are not ashamed to ask for a fee like models of incomparably higher quality. Of course, we can't put all models in one or two bags, but the motivation component plays (imho) a significant role (especially for not so experienced models - I hesitate to use the word professional).
- Go4Conceptual
- 25. 08. 2022 00:352022-08-25 00:35:16
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Reakce na Ivo Habran: Z TFP vychází lepší fotky než ty placené. Bude to tím, že modelky, kt...
Interesting theory, I feel sorry for all those commercial photographers who shoot every day with professional models, seen this way they don't have the slightest chance to shoot anything that could be compared to what can be seen here :D
- Ivo Habran
- 24. 08. 2022 19:442022-08-24 19:44:23
- reagovat
Z TFP vychází lepší fotky než ty placené.
Bude to tím, že modelky, které chtějí fotky se snaží a společnými silami tvoříme skvělé fotky.
Za to u placených, modelky prahnou pouze po penězích a je jim úplně jedno co se vyfotí.
- Kees Terberg
- 24. 08. 2022 08:542022-08-24 08:54:07
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Reakce na L. Hala: Modeling madness? Peeking in here out of old habits, I can't stop w...
I guess that you are right. We are becoming a bunch of complaining old farts and there are not many subjects that are not related to a complaint. What would be an interesting contemporary topic?
You are right. We are desperately hanging on to the positive elements from a bad era, in a constantly changing world.
I should perhaps change the title to General Madness, or Modern Madness, rather than limit it to my rant about modelling. ;)
Modeling madness?
Peeking in here out of old habits, I can't stop wondering how it became a more and more bizarre discussion club O)
Most of the remaining discussion threads are complaints (!!), complaints about something or someone that isn't what it used to be
The only exceptions are tips on various tunes from the last century. That's it, otherwise not a single contemporary topic
As if there were only photographers left they desperately looking for their vanished world
Kees wrote a truth, times change, they always have, and those who are constantly seeking the old ones remain uncomprehending along the roadside
And then, they see nothing but madness around them :D
- Kees Terberg
- 23. 08. 2022 09:292022-08-23 09:29:49
- reagovat
Reakce na VladaM: Nefotím s placeným modelem. Ani akty. Už vůbec ne s modelkami, se kte...
I understand and I guess that this will be my way forward as well. I started paying my models a fixed fee as I understood that this was their only source of income. I must admnit that I am starting to care less and less about them as they start charging more and more. Times are changing.
- Kees Terberg
- 23. 08. 2022 09:272022-08-23 09:27:37
- reagovat
Reakce na Lotte: Why did you stop working with agencies? When I used to work with the a...
I only worked with agencies when I did not have to pick up the tab myself. Here in Prague the agencies work slightly differently and the way they work remind me more of a different industry. A model signs with an agency and the agency only collects rather than provide a service.
Why did you stop working with agencies? When I used to work with the agency, the agency would pay me and this was hardly anything but I recall that all the models were looking forward to working with photographers for new images in their portfolio.
This is not really a discussion or a debate, but more like a rant and venting of my own frustrations. I am wondering if I am the only one with this opinion or if this is something that is also experienced by my fellow colleagues.
For a long time, I only worked TFP. When photography was my profession, my job, my bread and butter, I used to exchange my services as a photographer with the services of a model. My camera gear needed to be paid for as I had a hefty loan outstanding to pay for the equipment and as photography was my only source of income, TFP became a means to work on non-commercial projects. During these sessions, we collaborated on artistic projects with the goal of obtaining images that would suit us both. To date, my best images were obtained through TFP sessions, even with extremely professional models.
Ever since I moved to Prague and put my old paid off equipment back to use to shoot entirely as an amateur, I have met a lot of magnificent girls who use their modeling skills to earn some extra cash. Over my years in the Czech Capital, I have started to pay a set fee for up to 2 hours of fine art nude work. Many of these models have become friends and not all the sessions result in a paid exchange but still, I do not believe that the 2000czk that I offered for a session was a bad rate. The payment became a business transaction that facilitated the use of the obtained images in exhibitions and international publications.
In my search for new faces, purely for the joy of working with light, a nice setting and a beautiful figure, I have come to one rather disturbing conclusion. An amateur photo model charges more than an experienced prostitute. Photo models are not prostitutes but a recent discussion with a pretty young lady who works in the escort industry, resulted in some pretty amazing images. With respect to the young lady, I will not be sharing any of the results on social media. Just to clarify, I was not aware of her profession but the website we used to hook up was more intended for sexual encounters rather than the arrangement of photo sessions. (Tinder)
The starting rate for an escort is around 40E/1000czk per hour. The lady offered any service that I requested and when I asked her to just let me photograph her, rather than use her body for gratifying my sexual fantasy, she was hesitant. We met for a drink and we ended up shooting body details where the photographed parts were difficult to recognize or anatomically place. The photo session was only agreed as she would not be recognized but the resulting images were personal and intimate. (www.adultprague.com)
The conversation that followed was an interesting one. She had friends and colleagues who would also be interested in working on fine art projects and be happy to work with me for a fraction of the agreed rate as long as no reference would be made to their actual profession.
In my inbox on FP I received various responses from models that I had contacted before. The rates that they quoted ranged from 1400czk per hour, with a minimum of 2 hours, to 500usd for a session without open legs. I have no intention to publish a picture book intended for gynecology students and anyone who is familiar with my work will know that I respect my models and never shoot anything that would compromise or degrade them in any way.
The current rates to work with an average model exceed the rates for an average prostitute. We are all shouting that fine art and nudity is not porn. Modeling is not prostitution and respect is essential. I love my models and I have enjoyed working with each and every one of them, but the rates that are currently being asked for by people without any of the grace, elegance or artistic ambitions that I was used to, will make me think twice about working with a paid photo model.
What is your opinion on the current range of "professional" models and the rates that they charge? My time of working with these new "professionals" has come to an end as they do not offer anything inspirational, new or worth their fee. Perhaps I stand alone with this verdict but I had to vent it regardless. Thank you for bearing with me and for having read my thoughts.